I have the exact same issue with the CC 2019 update yesterday, been driving me crazy for the last few hours trying to figure out why and haven't found anything yet. I hope this post will help families as they think through their options so they make a choice that works well for them – whatever that choice may be! They would think that I did my research, made a judgement based on the information available to me, and move on. We provide a full suite of general auto repairs and maintenance services at low, affordable prices to ensure every driver in our area can get the quality care their car needs. You can disagree and think it’s wonderful. This is the kind of company we are talking about. I recommend you read up on some educational theory. I see the validity of your critiques, and have experienced some pros and cons myself. I say “barely” because he still refused to recite some of the facts, or study them, but he’s never complained about his experience, to this day. Self reports. Thank you for your offer and best wishes as you homeschool your children in whatever way is best for your family. I used the songs as a crutch, in fact, I sang it in my head to help guide me to say the next words. All my kids are 2E except the youngest, who is simply towards the end of the gifted scale. There were many reason including finding the best fit for our teens. I now have a child who does not like to perform in any way, shape, or form.” – As a student who has enrolled, I can honestly say, I’ve never been a performer either, I despise acting, and dancing, etc. I do not have a gifted child but I have looked into CC, we didn’t have any CC places in our area but I wanted to learn more about it. Not to mention that the older years are $1400 not $350, and that does not include all the extras. The answer to all ideas is, “You just don’t understand the classical method. No. We are part of a classical co-op that formed independently after the group spent some years as an official CC group. A ‘helper’ is often a way to alleviate any issues in the classroom. I really struggled with whether or not to approve it. If the bend is too tight, the material will fail from the tensile stress. I would have totally rocked that when I was a kid. Just find the symptom that sounds … Some are meant to be teachers. The 2010 Volkswagen Passat has 225 problems & defects reported by Passat owners. I asked and, no, neither I nor any families had ever caused a problem with people liking being in my class. The headlights went through their self check as normal and the fault cleared. So I do find your review refreshing and saying something that needs to be said. If you cant do that, then no CC is not for you and probably not any other program like it. I have no intention at this point of doing a pro/con post. The co-op was inspired by the good in CC and changed other parts for reasons very similar to what you explained above. They they kept that disclosure to themselves (which is the primary concern that was being discussed)? I don’t see you not wanting to stay as a problem at all, if you look back at my comment, it would say otherwise. One of my pet peeves is a nice-looking graphic that is marred by bad text. Get the latest Comedy Central shows, The Daily Show, Inside Amy Schumer, South Park, Broad City and Comedy Central classics like Chappelle's Show and Strangers with Candy. , First off, I want to just say, this is a good article, and you clearly have spent your valuable time writing it, so I want to thank you for you, and your perspective as a dedicated mom of a gifted child. A quick look around my site will make that abundantly clear. No, I will tell you what they did. You are the parent and you then have the total freedom to present, teach, read about, explore, or totally ignore whatever parts you want and to the depth or shallowness you feel meets your child’s needs. Hold shift if you want to be a weirdo and not use proportionate scaling. I’m going to say that there are absolutely wonderful things I remember about our years in the program. Giving them the best doesn’t necessarily equal CC, and I had no interest in tutoring. I agree with this reply! Then LEigh Bortins, who started it, realized these highschool kids didn’t know foundational things that were critical to what they needed to know in high school, so she developed the Foundations program, which is all the memory work. Hi - Yes, I tried all of the above and was able to fix the bounding box, but the text cursor remains absent. I do have friends who have loved it and continued, but it was not for us. Many gifted/2e kids already struggle with perfectionism. For example, in Challenge III, if students have not mastered Latin vocabulary or complex grammar, they are able, nonetheless, to translate Caesar because they are familiar enough with the concepts to recognize them. Did CC HQ send you to leave this? Thursday, May 6, 2010 hu says he never wavered from his desire to become a classical saxophone soloist. So instead of having MORE freedom and flexibility as a homeschoool parent, one actually has less in the Challenge program. Moms like me can benefit from your perspective for sure. Welcome to Half-Price Auto Repair. I don’t have an answer for you other than to tell you that you apparently aren’t the only one dealing with this issue or others similar to it. Thank you so much. I walked through the decision-making process I made for our family and let other people see it. “I knew that I had to find a way to pursue classical music on the saxophone,”he says. And there is a screenshot of it. She was overwhelmed and worse, I was completely overwhelmed. The only time I see the squares is when I use Warp. But, like I’ve said it is all based on community and NOT the program. The worst complaints are engine, cooling system, and suspension problems. And the experiences of friends of mine went up much further than that. I say this because although me, nor my siblings are gifted children, my mom willingly stayed with us every week. And, by the way, when you attempted to use your words to manipulate Sallie into feeling bad for not wanting to stay with her daughter and then claimed that you were doing nothing of the sort, your logical fallacies were quite obvious. People who stop in for one post with a preconceived idea of how things must be apparently don’t understand that or choose not to see it. That is not right and very unchristian. I had to explain to them that she had no children so didn’t know how to talk to them outside that role. In contrast, she said ours was very laid back, relaxed, and exactly what her kids needed. This can be misinterpreted and can make the classroom experience difficult. The material to be presented is so challenging that parents have to be there to learn how to do it at home, but anyone can learn to be a tutor in a few short training sessions. One of the most popular homeschooling programs currently available is Classical Conversations (CC). . Because “it had surprised the tutor to hear that it was being brought up after she thought it was taken care of.” Ahem … she knew full well it had NEVER been addressed or brought up to her. Some people have great experiences, but that’s generally attributed to the tutor/friends made than the curriculum itself (sure, they have some good stuff and chose some good stuff that other people wrote, … but on its own without a good human in charge of the classroom, it really really is bad, like most things). A boy with Aspergers switched to our campus this year too. Again I do feel the cost is a bit to high, but 8t is a sacrifice we are willing to pay for our family. While some families might find this rigidity a source of accountability, other families will find the rigidity stifling. The number of 50 degrees is completely unreasonable and not child-friendly. I feel like CCrs worship the program, constantly giving praise to CC and themselves and no glory to God for their childs education and learningB. For families where money isn’t a concern, the cost of CC might not be a big deal. I’m glad this was helpful. They spend HOURS on this level every week and are NEVER pushed into the higher levels except perhaps during their 30 minutes of “science” (which is often VERY poorly done by the way). I cannot speak from experience when it comes to 2E children, or gifted children, but I do know this: I know plenty gifted children within the program who thrive in it. Challenge A kids … from 9-3. When CC came to our area a few years ago, I checked it out since I had taught for a year in a Classical Christian school and I was very familiar with the concept of classical education. I was also a bit surprised because you’d think that as a mom you would want to stay with your child, gifted or not. I hope you can find something that works well for both you and your son. Schooling in a community of families has both its blessings and it’s curses. I actually have no desire to “out” them for their behavior or tell my big long story. Regarding your statement “They approach children incorrectly and damage them.”: I hate to keep disagreeing with you, Mrs. Brooke, but I genuinely and respectful disagree, and here’s why: Although you’re right about CC not specifically encouraging “being nice”, respectful, etc. UPDATE: After I did that, I have my bounding box back, but now I can't see my text get highlighted to see where I'm changing my text /:[So it fixes one problem but doesn't fix another ... ugghhh. One of the things people say they love about it is how amazing it is to hear the kids recite or perform all of the facts they have learned. That was explicit in the Guide. Yes, But Not in Our Home, Homeschooling Geography Made Simple with Maps and a Globe, Relaxed Homeschooling Science in Early Elementary, Our First Year of Homeschooling – A Look Back at the Ups and Downs of Kindergarten, Why a Valedictorian and Former Teacher Chose Relaxed Homeschooling, Sticker Dolly Dressing – Sticker Books as Learning Tools, Reflections on Our Homeschool Preschool Year, https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/education/triad-whiz-kid-will-blow-you-away-with-her-memory/432045141, https://homeschoolcpa.com/tax-assessor-clears-confusion-on-cc-communities-using-churches/?fbclid=IwAR2B5kyGvhbQBqVngQX3OAHH9gxegdUwFnTAl3xsEFtZnfDc4joAJrmnr1k. I actually don’t like ice cream, I never have, and it turns out I’m allergic to dairy milk, so your critique of her intuitive response to her child’s needs, and her own, is even funnier to me. At any rate, I thank you for listening and for your sweet reply. We found, Dual crediting offered so much more, at a lower cost and **BONUS, included college credit. I think it’s kind of you to write in. sich zerreißen to bend over backwards [idiom] sich verbiegen [fig.] – I definitely disagree that MM would mean less if more people could accomplish it. My son would be entering as a 7th grader, and he has had none of the Foundations/Essentials program, nor the rigors of the older program. I will certainly be bookmarking your review for reference for other 2e families who may be considering this program and need to have a look at whether it would be a good fit for their needs. I can also show you a breakdown of how many people each month end up on this post because they searched in Google for some variation of “Is CC a cult?” and how many people search that on average in Google each month with the keyword tool I use. I will stick with the previous version until these issues have been addressed. That is what CC community is all about! Do their stories not count? PERFECTION: If you were ever a member you would know that this is not stressed unless the parent (primary teacher) wants to stress it. The reset preference doesnt work and it's not a solution for such a tool. Also, our family joined our classical co-op in 7th grade when the CC-type format changed from heavy memorization and repetition into more varied, free-thinking work for the older kids. I paid $12/week tuition for a 3 hour CC class that included art/music and a science lab (which I would not have done at home because like I said, I am not a teacher by nature.) They approach children incorrectly and damage them. I’m not sure if you really are 14 years old or a mom. On Twitter, some iPhone fans suggested that the jumbo smartphone is just not compatible with skinny jeans. If I am their teacher right now in these years, I ought to be with them, especially on the one day they go to the “co-op” with others. How many locations? It is a strong program and it is GREAT for some. Volume or Modulation), Pitch Bend or Aftertouch. I was thinking of putting my high schooler in Challenge, but he has never been in CC before and I am having doubts. The director should be aware of physical limitations and may extend time and offer a break during proofing. Are you sure you want that? What I’ve come to realize is that it truly comes down to your philosophy on education. This can happen after a while of ownership and there are several common reasons that you can look for. I totally dropped Latin because I at 55 am just not going to learn it well enough to teach him. So I know the program CAN be accommodating. It should straight line if value is zero and if its positive bend line to down side else bend the line to up side [text will draw along this path. And if you are interested find a campus that fits you and your family because I do think some are different than others! Quality Glossary Definition: Eight disciplines (8D) model. When I couldn’t come to the meeting, I was called and told I couldn’t tutor until the problem was resolved. I’m even aware of tutors and some in leadership who do not adhere to Christian values and ethics. Thanks for sharing your perspective. in fact, I wasn’t very good at it either. They came up with these answers from Director to Support Manager to Area Manager to Regional Manager). And you are correct that in class, they are to just recite all those memory facts and not to go deeper into the subjects. Our co-op offers classical content and teaching/learning styles with a less-rigid structure than CC, but still a rigorous education. A certain level of proper behavior is expected on behalf of the child, but children are allowed to wiggle, to dance, to sing and basicly be children. Once again, I am only a student, and I was very respectful in my last comment, so I am offended you feel that you would speak to me that way. If kids do not complete the work (upper levels) or do not have the memory work down pat in the lower levels, they are not looked down upon. An open comment to the CC Directors and others who continue to attack me on social media for this post. That they operate as a for profit while trying to call themselves a ministry (with the goal of trying to let that word “ministry” substitute for “nonprofit” which is a tax designation that they DO NOT HAVE)? So they aren’t making apples to apples comparisons. and communities have just gotten away from it ….”. (The whole Memory Master thing was not even mentioned in our community last year, either). Super. She is obsessed with horses, so for her weekly science research papers, whatever the topic is (astronomy, plants, etc) she is finding some way to relate that to horses (astronomy: Pegasus; plants- which ones are poisonous to horses), so she is excited about learning science because she is getting to research things that interest her and then present that to her classmates. I am getting a warning reading on the dash - NO BEND AFS. However, the DO encourage the Bible, and they DO encourage Biblical (Christ-like) behaviors on not only the tutors, but directors, parents, and kids! sich über jdn./etw. . I’ve written lots about those topics there. Thanks for all your work. Click on any cover to see more details, including an editable preview file that you can try out! They are so way old school that they won’t tolerate ANYONE to have an idea. This is extra-important for my 10 yr old son who is often bored at home because he’s such an active learner (and I’m not), but the once a week co-op classes keep him motivated. The Memory Master requirements should remain the same for all subjects. – Some people are arguing with you by listing what Challenge is like (while you are clearly referencing the elementary classes). But my kids are all gifted in the PG range, and two are 2E. Why can’t some people dislike CC without CC customers trying to talk them out of their opinions? . I am very surprised that these basic functions were overlooked before release! The expectation that parents remain isn’t going to vary. This one doesn't make sense to me at all. Some of them are WILDLY different. How about the many people who left comments here who thanked me for writing this and putting into words something they had also observed about how CC wouldn’t work for their gifted/2e child but couldn’t quite put into words? But I was a member of SEVERAL free groups, and you know, it is disruptive to have a different class every week because parents don’t bother to show. And that is okay! Any adult in any position of power or influence has to have the ability to present ideas, and we are all grateful when we are not terrified to present. I think it is well-rounded to have all aspects. (I don’t have time to make the links pretty. I think that’s a pretty good deal, but each family needs to decide on what and where they want to spend their money. I agree we can learn from different opinions. I thought about editing it heavily and then posting it. In fact, CC very very often downplays skill and downplays master teachers. CC never asked them to be skilled. There is no performance expectation. This is a slight problem when trying to bend … There is something you need to know about this program: for every tutor who is wonderful, CC didn’t ask them to be wonderful or train them to be so. I remember being told that I needed to share my concerns with leadership (I had, but they certainly didn’t believe me … even though CC promotes Matthew 18 above all else, THEY DO NOT APPLY THAT TO THEMSELVES). And the company has created an environment that allows for some pretty bad situations. So we chose a different path. There is so much talk about the community aspect of it and about the Christian fellowship that I assumed it was only open to professing Christians. Google university model Texas. I don’t think you read the comment thread before commenting because we’ve already covered your points and attacks on me/my post multiple times. You have different learners. I could list all kinds of reasons I’m glad I stayed but some of them are specific to being a Challenge parent so I’ll stick to the issue of not benefiting from the tutor. An autonomous MIDI expression pedal for sending CC events (e.g. Trigger and modify effects using your expression pedal. There is NO checking to see if the person can handle a classroom or any references for how well they do with children, etc. We cannot and should not shame others for whom our choices do not work for whatever reason. But, that’s just for my daughter. For an outlier like my daughter, it would just be repeatedly trying to jam her wonderfully wiggly, wild, square self into a round hole. The only accommodations are for every student, which are what I listed in misspeaking and also that it can take longer for some than others (they don’t go for speed, rather for the clear idea that the work is mastered). Our tutor put WAY more work into facilitating the education of our students than she was compensated for and in our case she certainly didn’t need any extra financial help. That was my main reason for writing it. CC was simply not what we needed. To help homeschoolers who have doubts about CC know that they aren’t the only one it doesn’t seem to fit well and that there is nothing wrong with doing something else for your family. They apparently do allow for a teeny teeny tiny bit of room for Mastery versus Perfection.). Looks like someone is trying to school you. That’s reality. Some are natural performers, and that’s okay. When I start the car the lights move side to side and up & down then into position so they do work. I tutored Foundations 7 years and Essentials 4 years. Yet, we don’t share the same interests, so I’m an outsider, which is fine for social things, but not when it comes to school related matters. We met great friends and I worked hard to a wonderful and appropriate educator within the restrictions the company placed upon tutors. And no, they would NEVER allow for someone with a learning disability to have any sort of accommodations. The Foundations program wouldn’t have fit my 2 older kids and it would have been torture for me, but my younger one loves the Foundations program. Now, there are many tutors who are educationally minded and understand educational theories and child-appropriate behaviors. I had five children in the program. Or someone sent by Classical Conversations to do damage control since it is the sign-up season for CC. Having, also at home, 3 younger kids the option to tutor to offset the cost is simply not realistic. Sallie, I was wondering why I was getting emails on this thread again. Thanks for this quick resolution, it worked for me and I also just relaunched my workspace that I had saved out previously to updating to CC19! Johnny Ray Martinez sunrise July 20, 1963, sunset January 1st 2021, he is preceded in death by his father Mr. Ramon Martinez, and his brother Albert David Martinez. Her perspective is from visiting and research. 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